A FEW STORIES ABOUT A FILMMAKER - INTERVIEW WITH BOGDAN DZIWORSKI
Bogdan Dziworski, an outstanding Polish cinematographer, director, full professor of film art and photography, will be given the Dragon of Dragons award and will give a masterclass at the 54th Krakow Film Festival. On this occasion, we republish the interview with him, conducted by Daniel Stopa.
Bogdan Dziworski, the acclaimed Polish film director and cinematographer, this year's Dragon of Dragons Laureate will give a masterclass in which he will explain his unique vision of documentary. The award–winning director will focus on the essential aspects of documentary filmmaking such as composition, issues related to art of observation and will also give some practical tips. The masterclass will also include the Polaroid workshop demonstrating Dziworski’s approach towards the art of documentary.
At the beginning of 2013 Daniel Stopa interviewed Bogdan Dziworski, asking him about his opinion on photography, the role of the script in documentaries and the sound in his films.
"Dziworski really, with the approval of the authorities [of the Lodz Film School - editor's note] took the camera and never put it away for six months. He slept, ate, worked and went on dates with a magnifying glass in the eye. During two quarters, he learned the world and our life through a tight rectangle of a frame..." - this is what Tadeusz Konwicki wrote about you in "1/250 sek." ...
Bogdan Dziworski: Konwicki knows me better than I know myself. I always say: to find a subject, you have to go and look for it. If you have a photo camera, you go with a photo camera. If you have a video camera, you go with a video camera. 3-4 hours a day, certainly not less. Then I check if I can make something out of it. Sometimes I go for a month, another one, and nothing. But you have to go, although it is not popular.
Before making documentary films, you used to go with a photo camera. Is it the best school for documentary filmmaker?
I started with photography and recently I have returned to it. I co-work with Leika: there are exhibitions, there will be another, there will be also a photo album. When the book comes out, I encourage you to take a look. Not to buy, because I do not know what the price is going to be, but you can always club together. Photography is a good school of documentary film, and documentary film prepares for feature film. I took photos, then I worked as a documentary and feature film cameraman, I also directed. The skill of cropping only helps the director.
You take photos for documentary and feature films, make your own documentary projects, which cannot be called "mere" observations. Agnieszka Bojanowska used to say that these are poetic films, the historians claim that "Skiing Scenes with Franz Klammer" is a model example of creative documentary...
What is important is not the genre, but whether the film watches well, whether the story is absorbing, whether it moves the viewer. In the case of "Skiing Scenes with Franz Klammer," it was so that we were making a film about the most popular skier of all times, the idol of Austria, the winner of multiple world cup competitions, the gold medal winner of the Olympic Games. Klammer agreed that we shoot the film, but in the meantime he broke his leg. When we learned about it, we already had our suitcases packed and we were waiting for the flight. And it was the time of the communism, so everyone counted their travelling allowances, thought which skis he would buy, how much he would earn and so on. Together with Zbyszek Rybczynski, we took the decision that we are going and we began to make the film, which originally was to look completely different.
So, improvisation won?
The entire project was fun. We managed to make a light story about Klammer. In the film, there are many scenes which I would have never invented before, because some events started to shape themselves in front of the camera. It is important to be watchful all the time.
This "fun" on the film set, which you have mentioned, we can see on the screen at some moment...
Earlier, I would not have invented the scene you have just mentioned, either. Before I shot it, the entire crew had a freer day. Klammer came for us and we drove to his restaurant; there were refreshments, wine, etc. He had a custom of inviting everyone to his own restaurant and treating them to exquisite dishes, delicious desserts and drinks and at the end he brought the bill and we had to pay for everything. He simply had such an interesting shortcoming, about which one could make another film. And after this supper, on the next day, when everyone was tired - everyone except me - I shot these funny scenes. Quite accidentally, nobody even knew that I was filming then.
As far as this "fun" is concerned, it reminds me about the rule, which you sold to the viewers in the series "Sztuka dokumentu" (The Art of the Documentary): "Look at the infinity and see your own shoes at the same time"...
Someone said it before me, but it is a very interesting rule. Today, I will remind my students about it...
You speak of this rule, when you are talking about the film tape. Is it worth to look at your own shoes when you have to deal with the film tape?
Film tape used to be expensive and it had to be developed. It cost and you had to think during shooting the film. Today, a lot of films are made quickly, carelessly and they are often wordy. But this rule applies equally to traditional and digital film tape. It is always worthwhile to think.
Is it worth to have a polished script?
It is worth to have an idea and know what and how to shoot. You also have to be watchful, because some scenes shape themselves in front of the camera, they do not need any script. When we were making the film "Georg Telemann's Travels from Żary to Pszczyna" we had a plan for some photos taken from a balloon. It did not work out, but Rysiu Lenczewski made a fantastic shot. We installed the camera on a high hoist and installed something like a peephole in front of it. And the 35 mm lens and the camera for the tape which allowed us to make dissolves. And in this way we filmed different stages of pumping the balloon - I would like to emphasise, together with dissolves - without any tricks in the post-production. The shot, which was not even planned, became the pride of the film. Usually, what we observe on the fly is more interesting than what we plan in the script.
So, sometimes the chance decides?
When I was making the film "Nordic Combination," I needed scenes with falling jumpers. In the film chronicle I was given a selection of such shots and I had a lot of them to choose from. However, I learned that a "strong" team from Bulgaria would be coming to the world cup. We were not to go to these games, but I thought: the Bulgarian team? anything can happen, let's go! I was lucky, because the landing was covered with ice and the "strong" Bulgarian team did not fail me. All of the falls, which are in the film, were made in a single day.
Coming back once again to "Skiing scenes..." One of the scenes, in which the waiter repeatedly falls over the protagonist with a tray, takes part in the restaurant. Since Klammer was so "eager" to invite the entire film team to his restaurant, did the making of these shots have some kind of a hidden history?
My assistant played the role of the waiter. Klammer was not aware that we were filming him. Every time when my assistant/waiter approached Klammer with the tray, we pulled the carpet from under his feet. He fell once, than twice and said that it was enough, that he would not go with the tray anymore. We promised that it is the end of jokes and now we would film in a serious way. He went with the tray for the third time... we pulled the carpet and he fell again.
"Skiing Scenes...” is one of the many films of yours, dedicated to sport. In these documentary films, you always abandon the viewer's or fan's perspective and look at the struggles with the athlete's eyes...
The point of view of the athlete is more interesting and more difficult to film. When we were shooting "Ice Hockey," everyone had to ice skate, even the producer. We were filming from the ice, between the sticks, we were following the puck. In the case of "Nordic Combination," all subjective scenes were filmed by a mountaineer, Adam Krzysztofiak, including the scene of the jump. And I will add that the camera, with a double battery, weighed a total of 30 kilos. I feared for his life and health, but the mountaineer can bear everything. When it was over - we made three doubles - he said that he would live and eat dinner with his wife that evening.
You look behind the scenes, that is, where the eyes of the viewers do not reach. This is the case in "Szapito." You are not interested only in the artists of the circus, but also in its staff?
The protagonist of this film takes care of an elephant, washes it, dresses it, prepares it for the performances and, using his wheelbarrow, gets rid of what the animal leaves after it. Mr Basta, who performed the main act with the elephant, was terribly angry with me for concentrating on the person who cleans the excrements. There were many quarrels and conflicts, but after all, it is this sweeper who is the leading artist.
In all films, whose titles we mention, the verbal layer is reduced to the minimum. Is image the most important thing in a film?
Storytelling without words is good, because then the viewer can interpret the image himself and create his own story. For a filmmaker, giving up dialogues and commentary is a challenge, because the picture has to be interesting, one has to look from various angles, use many cameras, and the work on the cutting table is time-consuming. Such films are simply hard to make and demand a considerable financial effort. I was working on "Dwubój klasyczny," a documentary film shorter than 10 minutes, for two years. Who would now give money for such a film?
However, it is worth emphasising that the soundtrack in your films is reduced, but created very carefully. In "The Prisoner" the image is even accompanied by a commentary, though its form is unusual...
I made the "The Prisoner" for the BBC. The manager of "40 minutes" saw the film and she said that there had to be a commentary, because they had never shown a film without words. I came up with the idea that I would record the commentary in the Morse code and the pilot who served in the RAF tapped it for me. Everyone was satisfied: the editor, because in a way, the commentary was there, and I was satisfied too, because in a way there was no commentary.
It is said that when you worked in Bulgaria, you also had to "fight" for silence?
In Bulgaria, I made the documentary "Sozopol - dnie i noce." An interesting subject: on the haven in Sozopol, the fishermen climb up the wall and wait until the storm is gone, and then they set sail to catch the fish. On their faces there are such emotions as on a boxing match: tension, relaxation, etc. I managed to show it in the close-ups. When they set sail, we see their hard everyday work. Then they fall asleep, dream, and the viewer watches beautiful sea like from a postcard. In the morning, they go back to the wall and look at the water again - their life forms a cycle. And here I also had a problem, because the manager wanted to have a commentary. I said that there would be no commentary. The end of it was that after two days I packed my things and left for Poland. His "Нельзя” [you mustn't – editor's note] and mine "Нельзя”.
But you also used illustrative music. In the film "The Cross and the Axe" folk sounds resonate, and in "The Fencer" - the waltz by Strauss...
Yes, although the music does not appear there by accident. The protagonist of "The Fencer" was an old-fashioned Piłsudskiite, a person of principles, with charisma. I invited Professor Kurpiewski to my house, and since I bought a new record player, I wanted to show off and play his favourite music. The Professor asked for the waltz by Strauss, and this was just what I did not have. But finally I gave him this waltz in the film, because this music is his world.
We have already talked about the essence of the image and reduction of sounds, and how important is the appropriate editing pace? In films such as "Nordic Combination" and "Ice Hockey" even the opening credits were specially edited, so that the viewer is introduced to the world of sport competition at the very beginning...
The idea of the opening credits belongs to Agnieszka Bojanowska. Anyway, I had the pleasure of working with the best editor in our country, the editor who was schooled in newsreel, documentary and feature film. She built these extraordinary rhythms and paces for me. To set such paces, one needs experience and natural manual and technical skills, the ability to feel the appropriate rhythm. My films are edited to the frame.
It was Agnieszka Bojanowska who said that you can express with image what a man feels, express abstraction.
If Agnieszka, my master, said so, let's talk no more.
Thanks for the interview!
Thanks.
Interview by Daniel Stopa